Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Clashes with CNN's Dana Bash Over Covid-19 Pandemic Response

Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. got into it with CNN’s Dana Bash on Sunday in an interview segment that quickly evolved into Kennedy angrily berating Bash and her network for “punishing” people during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The segment on Sunday comes as measles outbreaks have broken out in several states, with public health officials warning that unvaccinated communities were supercharging the spread of the disease to historic levels.

Bash, host of CNN’s State of the Union, prodded Kennedy repeatedly to look “into the camera” and urge parents to get their kids vaccinated against the measles virus. Kennedy did repeat the urging, but the interview went south from there as they debated the treatment of skeptics and those opposed to the Biden administration’s public health guidance during the pandemic.

“Of course you want to move on!” an angry Kennedy insisted as Bash tried to pivot from a question about Covid-era guidance. “Because you were part of the problem!”

“No, I wasn’t!” Bash replied indignantly.

“There was absolute press malpractice [during Covid],” Kennedy continued. “You weren’t allowing ... your job is a furious skepticism toward authority. And you weren’t doing that. You were beating up on people who were dissenting.”

After Kennedy finished, Bash attempted to take down the temperature, and said in a calmer tone: “Okay. Do you want to sit here and attack me or do you want to have a conversation about public health?"

“You’re sitting here and attacking me!” responded the secretary.

The CNN host went on to say that she would not allow Kennedy to “use this interview to say things that are not entirely true”.

They then went back and forth over the Covid vaccine, its efficacy, and whether or not it posed a greater risk than benefit to children who received it. The two argued also over CNN and other media networks’ citing of advice from “experts” like Fauci and other public health officials and academics who appeared on TV frequently during 2020 and 2021 to promote things like masking, social distancing, and following public health guidelines.

“I can tell you, that, when it comes to the vaccine, there have been studies that show that because of vaccine disinformation, disinformation, there could have been 100,000-200,000 lives in the U.S., saved, but because people didn’t get the vaccine, that’s why ...”

“You are saying nonsense!” a frustrated Kennedy replied. “You are saying something that you cannot show me [evidence to support].”

“I am not saying nonsense!” Bash shot back.

At one point, Kennedy took aim at Bash for not having a scientific background, leading to Bash pointing out that despite his appointment to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, he didn’t either.

“Dana, you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist,” said Kennedy, as they talked over each other about the secretary’s comments regarding vaccines and autism.

“Well, you’re not, either!” said Bash.

All in all, the segment lasted more than 20 minutes, uninterrupted, before Bash ended the interview by repeating the explanation that it was her job to find the best information, from experts, and provide it to the public. She finished her statement by beginning to say that it concerned her when Kennedy came on the program and said untrue things, or statements that were not supported by evidence or scientific studies, before she was cut off by the secretary one last time, who finished her sentence for her.

“[Things] that your ‘experts’ do not agree with,” Kennedy interjected, using air quotes around the word “experts”.

“Yes!” Bash replied. “People with scientific backgrounds.”

Kennedy’s interview on CNN followed a similar debate on the Hill this past week, where Fauci appeared for the first time in years under subpoena from Sen. Rand Paul and the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs. Rather than answering questions, the former Biden-era director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases refused to answer and cited his 5th amendment right to avoid self-incrimination repeatedly throughout the hearing, even when asked seemingly innocuous questions.

Fauci’s refusal came from his opposition to participation in a hearing he said was clearly engineered to attempt to secure the grounds to prosecute him for lying to Congress, something he denied ever doing. Paul and Republican senators furiously berated him, to silence, over his Covid-era public health guidance, his support for gain-of-function research, and other issues including allegedly using his office to enrich himself, which Republicans say they believe is unethical.

Lockdowns, masking and social distancing became hot-button political issues ahead of the 2022 midterm cycle and the broader faction of the right that fell into Covid skepticism came to intensely support seeking retribution against Fauci and other Biden-era officials for what they saw as a massive assault on civil liberties, something Kennedy frequently alluded to in his interview Sunday.

That political faction became an important part of Donald Trump’s 2024 comeback bid as Kennedy sought an alliance with the resurgent Republican candidate after mounting his own independent bid for the presidency.