Australia to acquire three second-hand Virginia-class submarines from US

Last night we heard that it was always the government's plan to acquire three second-hand Virginia-class submarines from the United States under the security pact.

So why wasn't the public told that fact in the first place? Finance Minister Katy Gallagher isn't clear on the why.

Instead, she sticks to the line that we just need the three nuclear-powered submarines, and whether they are new or old boats doesn't make a "significant change" to the capability.

Asked about Ed Husic's call to rethink AUKUS, Gallagher doesn't say anything new here either: Husic is entitled to his views, and it's not surprising he has been outspoken on this.

"I don’t think it’s particularly surprising that Ed’s talking publicly. He does on a number of matters. He’s entitled to his view. He’s made that clear.

"But the government remains committed to the agreement that we signed up to in opposition and that we are implementing in government."

Back to the issue of the used AUKUS subs. Foreign Minister Penny Wong suggests it makes no difference if we get new or second-hand nuclear-power vessels.

"Whether it's two [used] and one [new], or three, it's the capability that matters," she tells ABC's AM.

She says what is important is that the project is moving forward.

"These are capability decisions which are discussed between the United States and Australia, but I don't believe as much turns on it as you are putting to me. We want three submarines to deal with, from the United States, to deal with a capability gap before the AUKUS submarines are to be delivered.

"That is the plan."

Back to Foreign Minister Penny Wong. The government is eyeing off a new treaty with the Solomon Islands amid talks with the Pacific nation's new prime minister today.

Wong, who met with Solomon Islands Prime Minister Matthew Wale yesterday, tells ABC's AM the government would be open to "the elevation of the relationship" between the two nations.

"We want to work with him. It's a new government. It has a very clear agenda, and we want to work with that government to deliver that agenda because it's in our interest to have secure arrangements throughout our region that contribute to Australian security," she says.

Wale, as opposition leader, criticised a security pact the nation signed with China. On the release of the details of that pact, Wong says that's up to Wale and his government to decide.

"I'm on the record as saying transparency would be a good thing, not just because, you know, the ABC is interested ... but actually for the region because we see security as a shared responsibility of the Pacific region and in a contested time it's important that Pacific leaders' view that security provided by the region is adhered to."

Labor frontbencher Mark Butler has also been out this morning, downplaying speculation there is a broader discontent within the caucus about the AUKUS security pact.

"There's one backbencher out of a caucus of about 120 who's raised some questions. The government is very happy with the way in which this project is tracking," he told Nine.

Yesterday, backbencher Ed Husic broke ranks with his party to demand a rethink of the agreement after it was confirmed Australia would receive three used submarines — rather than two used and one new as had originally been proposed.

Foreign Minister Penny Wong is doing the media rounds this morning, where she's been asked about the used AUKUS subs saga.

Yesterday, former cabinet minister Ed Husic called for a rethink of the agreement after confirmation Australia would receive three second-hand submarines from the US in the 2030s — rather than two used and one new as had originally been proposed.

Wong tells ABC News Breakfast that Husic, as a backbencher, is welcome to his views, but AUKUS was in Australia's best interests.

"We believe it is necessary for Australian security, and we believe chopping and changing will only set the country back," she says.

"We've had over a decade of governments changing course on submarines. We have a clear project ahead of us and that is to deliver submarine capability for this country into this century."

Last night's Defence estimates were the first outing for the new Defence secretary, Meghan Quinn — and she landed right in the middle of a fairly messy AUKUS news cycle.

Quinn received a grilling over the AUKUS shift from buying two used and one new Virginia-class submarine from the US in the 2030s, to three used submarines.

Both Quinn and Defence Minister Richard Marles have said the new arrangement isn't just better for Australia, given all the simplicity of operating identical submarines, but it's what the government has wanted all along.

Greens senator David Shoebridge wanted to drill down into the language, in particular, how the former plan had until now been described as the 'optimal pathway' if the government didn't actually see it as the best option.

"If the optimal pathway in March 2024 was two second-hand ones and one new one, how do we understand your evidence now that Australia's position is that we would have always had a preference for three (second-hand submarines)?"

"You can't have two optimal pathways?"

"You can absolutely have two constrained optimal pathways," Quinn replied.

"Constrained optimisation is absolutely core to policy-making."

Quinn argued there is no perfect path — that every option comes with costs and benefits, and there can be multiple 'optimal pathways'.

But Shoebridge said the notion of multiple optimal paths was stretching the bounds of language.

"AUKUS is not only doing damage to the Australian public purse, but it is also destroying the English language," he said.

Defence Minister Richard Marles insists the new AUKUS deal that will see Australia buy three second-hand Virginia-class submarines from the US isn't just a better outcome, it's what the government wanted all along.

Marles returned yesterday from his trip to Singapore over the weekend, where he met US Secretary of War Pete Hegseth and announced the change to the AUKUS pact.

Australia was going to buy two second-hand submarines in 2032 and 2035, with about 20 years of life remaining, and one brand-new one in 2038.

Speaking at a 'Defending Australia' summit in Canberra last night, he argued that it was at the insistence of the US.

He said Australia has always wanted three second-hand submarines because of the simplicity of operating three identical submarines, but until now, the US was only offering a third new submarine, which would have significant differences to the others.

"Our preference actually from the outset would have been to have 'in service' submarines, because what it would mean was that we were operating a consistent class of submarines which would provide consistency for our submariners and for those maintaining the submarines," he said.

"It's not what was then available in terms of the sustainment and production schedule that America had to offer."

It's the same argument the new Defence secretary, Meghan Quinn, put to Senate estimates last night — drawing an incredulous response from Shadow Defence Minister James Paterson.

Australia is pushing for a new treaty with Solomon Islands as the Pacific nation's new Prime Minister Matthew Wale visits Canberra.

Wale will hold talks with Anthony Albanese and top foreign affairs officials in Canberra as he kicks off his first overseas trip since seizing the top job last month.

The visit will come against the backdrop of a sometimes-fierce strategic contest between China and Australia in the Solomon Islands, which signed a controversial security agreement with Beijing in 2022.

It's still the only formal security pact that China has managed to land across the Pacific.

But Australia spots a golden opportunity to push back under Mr Wale. The new prime minister sharply criticised China from opposition when the security pact was signed, although he's since softened his position.

The federal government has already publicly signalled it wants to negotiate a comprehensive treaty with Solomon Islands and clearly hopes Wale will agree to kickstart that process during this visit.

It's not yet clear whether Wale is willing to take Australia up on that offer, but he and his senior ministers have already been in detailed discussions with Australian officials — both last week in Honiara and yesterday in Canberra.

That suggests that the idea — at the very least — is being very seriously considered.

Hi friends. Welcome to our daily federal politics live blog.

I'm Courtney Gould from the ABC's Parliament House team, here and ready to guide you through the day.

Well, isn't it all happening this morning. Last night, Defence Minister Richard Marles did his best to clarify what is actually going on with the whole second-hand AUKUS submarines saga. Elsewhere, Foreign Minister Penny Wong will be everywhere this morning ahead of a meeting with Solomon Islands PM Matthew Wale.

Grab a coffee and settle in. I have a feeling it could be a busy one.

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