The trial in the Collegium Humanum case began today at the District Court in Warsaw. 29 people will appear in court, accused of committing 67 crimes by the prosecutor's office. The findings of the investigation show that the university issued false certificates of completion of MBA studies, as well as bachelor's and master's degrees. It is worth knowing that an MBA diploma, i.e. Master of Business Administration, entitles you to sit on supervisory boards of companies with State Treasury shareholding and municipal companies without having to pass a state exam. Former rector of Collegium Humanum Paweł Cz. Together with other people, he allegedly accepted financial and personal benefits many times in exchange for issuing documents. Among the accused is Jacek Sutryk, interviewed by RMF FM reporter Martyna Czerwińska.
Although the prosecutor's office is convinced that the president did not complete his studies and obtained his MBA diploma by giving a bribe to the rector, the city manager does not admit guilt. The fake diploma was supposed to enable him to sit on the supervisory boards of State Treasury and local government companies, where he earned a total of up to half a million zlotys. The host of Wrocław did not publicly comment on the allegations for a long time, but before the trial he agreed to talk to our reporter.
An MBA degree for a bribe? Jacek Sutryk in an interview with RMF FM
Martyna Czerwińska: Did you not lose your image during your second term in connection with the Collegium Humanum scandal?
Jacek Sutryk: This is not just my scandal. Besides, I feel more like a victim here. The prosecutor's office has its theses, its own - so to speak - accusations against me. He has the right to do so. This is the role of the prosecutor's office in Poland, but it is the courts that issue verdicts, not politicians, not journalists.
However, the prosecutor's office charged you based on evidence.
Yes, but this evidence will now be verified, validated and assessed by the court. It often happens that people have cases that last for 3, 5, 10 or 20 years and in the end it turns out that they are innocent. Let me remind you that these cases are preceded by the presentation of various charges in the form of an indictment. This is my case, but it doesn't mean anything. There is a presumption of innocence and in the end it may be different. I have never acted in bad faith. I have studied solidly, hard, hard all my life and worked hard for my authority and, above all, for the city. Nothing changes here. It's been exactly the same for the last two years. Nothing has changed in this respect and I intend to do so until the end.
Why did you change your lawyer?
There is no special reason. There are different stages of this procedure. I decided that at this stage it was appropriate and important for me, and that's how I behave. I have the right to do so. My interest and the issue of my defense are the most important for me today and I am choosing the optimal instruments for this. This is nothing extraordinary. These are false leads, false theses.
Do you regret that some Wrocław residents will remember you as the one who was involved in this scandal? Does it hurt you?
No, it doesn't really bother me. Everyone has the right to make their own assessments. Everyone sometimes finds themselves in, let's say, uncomfortable situations for various reasons. I try not to judge people in this respect and I think that every normal person who knows what life is about can approach it in the right way. Once again: unlike many people, I meet the inhabitants of Wrocław every day. I know what they're saying. I think that if it bothered the people of Wrocław, they wouldn't invite me, they wouldn't want to be with me. They wouldn't greet me in the street, they wouldn't say hello, they wouldn't say all sorts of nice things. I invite everyone to spend a day with me - a working day with President Jacek Sutryk. You can walk through the city with me and see how people behave. You can go with me to an event, a celebration, and see what a cool Wrocław atmosphere we have. None of us are perfect and sometimes difficult situations happen. The point is to explain these situations, but also to be somehow understanding towards each other. I can count on this understanding from the people of Wrocław and I am grateful to them for that.
Can you honestly say that you earned this diploma honestly?
I have never taken advantage of any situation in an undignified manner. I have studied hard all my life. And with very good results. I devoted a lot of my time and activity to my education. I am well educated and well prepared for what I do. I love it and I have nothing to complain about. But let's wait and let this situation become clearer, so to speak.
Is it fair for presidents to sit on supervisory boards of different companies, different cities, and for presidents to exchange these positions?
This is still the case in many places today. We are not talking about presidents, but marshals, starostas or deputy presidents. My deputies also sit in various supervisory companies; directors and so on. I don't see anything wrong with it. If someone has competences, primarily competences resulting from experience, if he understands the matter he deals with, if he wants to take care of these matters and is ready to do so, I see nothing wrong with it. There was a moment when they tried to make it the worst situation in the world. I just don't understand it. Pursuant to the Commercial Companies Code, such companies are obliged to have supervisory boards. These supervisory boards must include people who are competent. I am very pleased that there was a moment when many colleagues sat on these supervisory boards, because I know that they know these matters well and took good care of these matters. Well, the legislation has changed in this respect. This is also interesting - only the mayor, mayor and president have changed. In the case of a deputy, deputy mayor, mayor or president, this is no longer the case. Not so in the case of marshals. Not so with directors. We are very inconsistent in this country when it comes to legislating. However, I rate many local government officials highly and I know for sure that if I had my own private company and I was obliged to have a supervisory board or a collegial body in this company that would supervise me on these matters, support me and consult me, I would really put a lot under their control, because I simply trust them and know that they act in good faith. Likewise, I have always acted in good faith, never in bad faith. And it will remain so.
So you will be acquitted? Are you sure about that?
You can't be sure of anything in life. This will be decided by the court. I will accept any decision, even if it is not in my favor. What characterizes me is that I approach these things with full appreciation and respect, and also understand what these things look like in the political system, right? Let's give these things a chance to finally start explaining themselves.
