tagesthemen: In your opinion, how great is the damage to the German foreign intelligence service BND?
Marc Henrichmann: He shook the foundations because probably no one could have imagined it. This goes into the realm of treason if the accusations are substantiated, and this in the case of a high-ranking official who has now been out of office for 20 years.
But still, with a view to the future, this really has to mean clarifying things and leaving no stone unturned.
tagesthemen: Yes, because a few years ago we had the case of Carsten L. - a high-ranking BND employee who is said to have spied for Russia. Now this case. What signal does this send to our partner intelligence agencies?
Henrichmann: Our partners are just as professional as the BND. You have to know that Mr. Hanning was also badly hit economically and apparently needed money after bankruptcy. Our partners also know that this makes people vulnerable and that opposing services always try to put people under their spell on the other side.
The Federal Prosecutor General is currently clarifying how far this goes. But I think the new president has a very high reputation. The events happened four years ago. In this respect it is now a new start, but it also has to be credible.
tagesthemen: But the question remains: How are foreign partner services supposed to work together in a trusting manner with the BND if the feeling is: We can't make sure that it doesn't end up somewhere else?
Henrichmann: In the end, there is always a residual risk when exchanging information - in every company and in every security agency. This can never be ruled out 100 percent. Our partners know this too. And as I perceive it, the reputation of the German services is also very, very good in the world.
But you now also have to show that you want to educate, that you are promoting trust and, through close cooperation, closing the gaps that may also account for this vulnerability and recognizing them earlier.
tagesthemen: In addition, the whole thing was not discovered by the BND itself, but by the police, and that only by chance. How could this have gone undetected for years?
Henrichmann: As I said, the events will now have to be fully clarified. It is also good that quick action was taken today, regardless of the person or office, and the allegations were made public. Nobody was spared here either. Nevertheless, it is now a matter of showing the will to bring transparency.
We will now also have to look at the question: What do officials do after their active time? There were tightening measures a few years ago. Is that enough, is the question. Personally, I now think not. But we also learned from the drone incident in Leipzig that it makes sense to wait for the investigation to begin. What exactly actually happened? What documents have been released?
The “need-to-know principle” always applies in the BND: everyone knows what they actually need to know. And so the question arises: How explosive was that? We are now talking about dossiers that Mr. Hanning is said to have created, not about boiling hot information. Who knows how big this will get? The work begins now.
tagesthemen: How much do you think this case threatens or at least influences the planned expansion of the BND's powers? Yesterday at the public hearing we heard how serious the general situation is and that there should be new powers for the Federal Intelligence Service.
Henrichmann: I think we now have two paths in Germany that we are theoretically taking. The one thing I think is wrong is now to say: "Our services must be tightly chained again and covered with a lot of bureaucracy."
The fact that people like Mr. Hanning are apparently being recruited by foreign powers shows that we are constantly being attacked from outside and that attempts are being made to place people in the sensitive areas of our infrastructure and our security authorities.
That's why I think the second option is exactly the right one: granting operational powers, but then at the same time strengthening parliamentary and legal control.
daily topics: Says the chairman of the Parliamentary Control Committee, Mr. Henrichmann. Thank you for the conversation.
Ingo Zamperoni conducted the interview for tagesthemen. It has been adapted for the written version.
