China News Service, Johannesburg, September 30. Title: "Connecting" the Nile River and the Yellow River, how can Egyptian and Chinese civilizations be "mutually translated"?
——Exclusive interview with Egyptian sinologist Aziz
China News Service reporter Sun Xiang
More than two hundred years ago, the decipherment of the Rosetta Stone became the key to people's re-understanding of ancient Egyptian civilization. Now, standing at the historical juncture of the 70th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Egypt, how should the two ancient civilizations of the Global South "understand" each other? What role can sinologists play among them? Recently, China News Service's "East-West Question" conducted an exclusive interview with Abdel Aziz Hamdi, an Egyptian sinologist, translator, and founder of the Chinese Department of Al-Azhar University, to review his experience of "cultural ferrying" in the past half century.
The interview transcript is summarized as follows:
China News Service reporter: 2026 coincides with the 70th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Egypt. As two ancient civilizations nurtured in the Yangtze, Yellow and Nile basins, the two civilizations of China and Egypt appreciate each other even though they are far apart. What is their deep core?
Aziz: Both China and Egypt have thousands of years of civilization. In ancient times, both countries created outstanding achievements in the fields of astronomy, medicine, architecture, science and technology, and made their own contributions to the development of human civilization. The deep resonance between the two civilizations lies in the common understanding of the value of "human beings".
Ancient Chinese philosophy attaches great importance to "people", morality, virtue, and the relationship between people, people and their families, and people and society. Why do people still study the thoughts of Confucius, Laozi and other sages after thousands of years? Because they are talking about "people". As long as people exist, these problems will exist. Only with good people can we have a good society; if people can understand each other, countries can better understand each other and cooperate with each other.
Ancient Egyptian society also attached great importance to justice, ethical order (Ma'at), etc. The underlying logic of Egyptian and Chinese civilizations in treating life, family, morality and social order is highly similar.
China News Service reporter: What experience can the long-term exchanges between China and Egypt and China provide for different civilizations to get along with each other?
Aziz: When studying the history of Chinese and Arab civilizations, I have a deep feeling that civilizations should understand and learn from each other rather than conflict. This kind of communication is like an endless river. Its core feature is mutual understanding, two-way flow, and mutual shaping.
In the Tang Dynasty, with the business travel and cultural exchanges along the Silk Road, the exchanges between the two ancient civilizations of Egypt and China became increasingly active. At that time, a large number of Arab and Persian Muslim merchants went to China to do business and settle, and Chinese merchants and goods also penetrated into the Arab region. This exchange spanning thousands of miles has left physical evidence in Egypt. Archaeologists have discovered Chinese ceramics from the Tang Dynasty in Fustat, the ancient capital that was one of the predecessors of Cairo today.
In the 9th century AD, the experiences of the Arab merchant Suleiman were compiled into "Records of China and India" (also translated as "Suleiman's Journey to the East"), which recorded the commercial system and social scene of Guangzhou and other Chinese ports at that time; in the 14th century, the Moroccan traveler Ibn Battuta also recorded his experiences in China.
The ancient Silk Road not only transported Chinese silk and porcelain, but also brought Arabic and Persian spices and calendars to China. More importantly, it was the integration of ideas and technology. Papermaking originated in China and was introduced to Baghdad via Central Asia in the 8th century, making Baghdad gradually become an important papermaking center at that time. At the same time, Arab astronomy, medicine, and Islamic culture and art also influenced China.
I often say that the two major civilizations of Egypt and China are very "international"-minded, respect each other, live in harmony and learn from each other. Only by placing both sides in the dynamic network of world history can we see the full picture of civilizational exchanges.
China News Service reporter: You have been learning Chinese since the 1970s and have translated a large number of famous works such as Cao Yu's "Sunrise". Based on half a century of translation and research, how do you view the leap from “understanding Chinese” to “understanding China”?
Aziz: Egypt is the first Arab and African country to establish a Chinese department. When I first learned Chinese, Egypt was extremely short of teachers. The Chinese teachers who came to Egypt were very patient and helped us slowly understand Chinese and China.
Later I went to China to continue my studies. When I first came to China, China had just begun its reform and opening up. Nearly half a century has passed since then, and I have seen with my own eyes that China has undergone tremendous changes.
I increasingly feel that if the Arab world wants to truly understand China, someone must translate Chinese thought, literature and history. In the Kuwaiti Arabic translation and publishing project "World Drama Series", I recommended and translated Cao Yu's "Sunrise". After its publication in 1988, this work was loved by Arab readers and has been published and distributed in 22 Arab countries. Later, I successively translated many Chinese works, allowing more Arab readers to understand China through literature.
When I translated "Sunrise", I translated directly from Chinese into Arabic instead of using a third language such as English as an intermediary. This made me deeply realize that cross-cultural translation is by no means as simple as converting Chinese characters into Arabic letters.
A translator must first truly master Chinese, and at the same time he must have good native language skills. If you translate a Chinese work poorly, Arab readers will not know whether it is a poor translation or a poor writing by the Chinese writer. In this sense, the translator bears a great responsibility. He is not only translating a book, but also influencing to a certain extent how readers in another culture understand China.
Another important question is what kind of work to choose. Just because a book is very good in China and very popular among Chinese readers does not mean that Arab readers will be able to understand and accept it if it is directly translated. Translators must understand not only China, but also the culture, habits and readers of Arab society. I like to translate works whose content is real and flesh-and-blood, because only if I truly understand and truly believe in the content of the work can I accurately convey it to readers in another culture.
In my opinion, studying China needs to go through several stages. The first step is to master Chinese, which is the basis for understanding China; the second step is to translate, through which China is introduced to the Arab world; and the third step is to truly enter the fields of Chinese history, culture, literature and philosophy to conduct research. Going forward, you must be able to write your own books and observe, compare and study Chinese civilization and Arab civilization together to form your own understanding.
This road is long and arduous, but if you want to truly understand another civilization, this is the road you must take.
Nowadays, many people are exposed to Chinese products, know about Chinese restaurants, and watch Chinese videos, but being exposed to China does not mean truly understanding China. They may not necessarily understand Chinese history, Chinese philosophy, or the historical connections between China and Arab civilization. Therefore, we need real China research today more than in the past.
China News Service reporter: You founded the Chinese Department at Al-Azhar University in 2001 and have trained a group of Egyptian youths for more than 20 years. What are the tasks of the new generation of sinological studies? What are the challenges?
Aziz: There are many young Egyptians learning Chinese now, and more than 30 Chinese departments have been opened in Egyptian universities. They have many employment opportunities in the economy, trade, engineering, infrastructure, multinational enterprises, cultural tourism and other industries, which objectively proves the vitality of the relations between the two countries.
But at the same time, many outstanding Chinese-speaking talents have flowed to high-return business fields, leaving a relative shortage of young scholars who can endure loneliness and are willing to stay in universities and think tanks to delve into basic theories. The fact that more and more people are learning Chinese does not mean that there will naturally be more and more Sinologists.
People can easily see China, but they may not really understand China. The task of the new generation of sinologists is to move from this superficial "knowing" to a deeper "understanding." This requires scholars who can endure the cold shoulder and adopt the spirit of long-termism to transform the mutual learning experiences between China and Egypt, Central Africa and even the Global South into the wealth of modern civilization shared by all mankind.
