Illner debate about anti-Semitism on the left escalates into a chaotic exchange of blows

Maybrit Illner actually wanted to discuss with her guests what the federal coalition parties could learn from the recent election defeats in the states. But when it came to accusations of anti-Semitism on the Berlin left, it quickly turned into a chaotic exchange of blows. Interior Minister Alexander Dobrindt from the CSU and the left-wing parliamentary group leader Heidi Reichinnek repeatedly interrupted each other. Illner tried to intervene and SPD General Secretary Tim Klüssendorf finally reminded what was actually supposed to be about. If Jews who were afraid for their safety in Germany saw this program, said Klüssendorf, then he wouldn't know "whether they would feel any better afterwards."

Chancellor candidate Dobrindt?

Under the program title “Reasonables Voted Out – Race for Justice?” the evening had started quieter. “stern” editor-in-chief Gregor Peter Schmitz saw technical problems in the government. Chancellor Friedrich Merz is “world class in announcing” but “district class in implementing,” said the journalist. Illner wanted to take a more personal approach to the government's misery: Would Dobrindt be a suitable next Chancellor? The Minister of the Interior did not accept this. To reduce the government's problems to Merz is completely wrong. If the coalition can ultimately initiate its reforms, it will also “stabilize” the Chancellor. Social systems are also about stabilization. Many citizens wanted reforms, but at the same time were afraid of change.

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On the subject of pensions, Dobrindt and Klüssendorf showed that the coalition partners can still argue normally about issues. Dobrindt said he wanted an earlier, zero-deduction pension focused on people who started early and worked hard physically. Klüssendorf made it clear that pensions no longer exist at 63 and insisted on 45 years of contributions as the decisive criterion. Reichinnek asked why savings always had to be made first and called for all employed people to be included in pension insurance.

Rappers and fake guests

Then Illner talked about the exploratory talks between the left-wing election winners in Berlin and the comparatively constructive discussion gave way to mutual insults, some of which were difficult to follow. The moderator showed an clip: At a left-wing election campaign event, rapper Dahabflex wished Israeli soldiers dead. And at an election party, MPs were photographed with a member of the United Palestinian National Committee (VPNK), whom the authorities classify as extremist. Reichinnek should also comment on the allegations against the left-wing MP Ferat Koçak about contacts with the Remmo criminal family.

Their answer remained the same: generalizations on both topics, anti-Semitism and clan contacts, were wrong. People from organized crime sought “proximity to power and politics,” said Reichinnek. There are also similar photos with representatives of other parties. The group leader said she would also not allow “my party to be accused of anti-Semitism across the board” just because the left sharply criticized Israel’s actions in Gaza. Regarding the accusation of Israel-related anti-Semitism, she said: “We stand with Israel as well as with Palestine.”

“It’s not the anti-Semites who leave”

Illner in turn recalled well-known Berlin leftists who left the party the year before last because of the unresolved anti-Semitism problem. “It’s not the anti-Semites who are leaving, Ms. Reichinnek, but the others,” said the moderator. Your guest referred to party decisions and difficult exclusion procedures. The party stands against anti-Semitism and organized crime. However, party exclusion procedures are complicated.

When Illner wanted to quote Berlin election winner Elif Eralp, she made a mistake. “She is anti-Semitic,” Illner said first and then corrected himself: “She is not anti-Semitic.” When Dobrindt interjected: “Yes, yes,” this in turn angered Reichinnek, who said: “It’s really disgusting to call Elif Eralp an anti-Semite.” This treatment of the possible future governing mayor is a “disgrace”.

Almost everyone kept talking at once. For quite a while, leading the discussion was so much more difficult. Meanwhile, Klüssendorf made it clear that he was drawing a “very clear red line” for the Berlin explorations: Without an unequivocal stance from the left against anti-Semitism, it would be difficult to form a government. At the same time, there are forces that use the accusation of anti-Semitism to fundamentally delegitimize the red-red-green coalition. Both could be true at the same time, anti-Semitism on the left and its political instrumentalization.

Schmitz also said that anti-Semitism also existed elsewhere, but that could not be a reason to trivialize problems on the left. One can of course criticize Israel's government and at the same time must "decisively combat any form of anti-Semitism on German soil," said the "stern" boss.

“Secret police” for the AfD

In between, it was about security policy, and Dobrindt criticized the left's positions on the protection of the constitution. Reichinnek referred to his failure in the NSU murders. Reichinnek criticized Dobrindt's reform of the intelligence services with the formulation: "They are building a secret police, ready for the AfD." Dobrindt reacted angrily and said that it was “one of the stupidest sentences that was said this evening.”

Reichinnek once complained in the heated exchange that the minister “really did most of the talking” and should let her finish. Dobrindt countered with: “You felt like you had the biggest Tiktok share.” Reichinnek recommended that the politician fire the employees who were probably writing down such “nonsense” for him.

At the end, only a short round remained for the Berlin election winning topic of renting. Reichinnek defended the socialization of large housing companies against the idea of ​​general nationalization. Berlin is in an absolute rent crisis. Dobrindt, on the other hand, argued that not a single new apartment would be created through socialization. Schmitz also considered the plans to be the wrong approach to the housing crisis in Berlin. But he warned against trivializing the problem. But there wasn't much time left for the topic of affordable housing anyway.