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Almost ten years ago, James Hawes became a bestseller with his book “The Shortest History of Germany”. Hawes, who studied German at Oxford, attempts to tell 2,000 years of German history in less than 300 pages. To do this, he used a classic stylistic device in popular historical works: the pointed thesis.
According to Hawes, the fundamental difference between East and West Germany runs through the entire history of Germany. He was also criticized for his arguments. Hawes warned at the time that anyone who did not recognize the differences in cultures would not be able to stop the rise of right-wing populists. How does he view the success of the AfD today?
DIE ZEIT: The AfD won the election in Saxony-Anhalt by a wide margin. What exactly happened on Sunday from the perspective of an interested Englishman?
James Hawes: What was expected happened. The entire East was AfD blue on voting cards in the last federal election. Anyone who is shocked by the result in Saxony-Anhalt has previously buried their head in the sand.
ZEIT: Nevertheless, many people are shocked. So they've all suppressed something?
Hawes: Absolutely. Germany is facing a huge problem. Maybe you need to look at the situation like a therapist would. Every therapist knows that things only get better when the patient is ready to acknowledge reality. The reality is: reunification happened far too quickly and carelessly. In 1989 I thought it would take years before East and West Germany could be merged. But Helmut Kohl wanted to win the 1990 federal election. People have not internalized how different the cultures in West and East Germany are.
ZEIT: The thesis of your book is that the differences between East and West Germany have existed for much longer than we believe. It's less about the 1990s and the GDR. It's about Prussia. It's about the Christianization of the Slavs by the Germanic people. The Romans. They really go back a long way.
Hawes: My thesis, put very roughly: The Germans never really felt safe and at home east of the Elbe and that shapes their thinking to this day.
ZEIT: You describe the Elbe as the great fault line in Germany. What does that mean?
Hawes: In 948, Germanic settlers attempted to cross the Elbe to the east. They were repulsed by the Slavs. The crossing of the Elbe was only seriously accomplished in 1147, after a Christian crusade against the pagan Slavs. But this “urge to the East” was never entirely successful. There was always the danger that the conquered would one day rise up. This has shaped the thinking of Germans in the East: thinking in us and them categories. The feeling that you have to be on your guard against “them”. The Germans were always at home west of the Elbe; east of there they were a colonial people.
ZEIT: A colonial people?
Hawes: Yes, right up to the 20th century. My wife is German. My blessed father-in-law was born in East Prussia, near Königsberg, in the 1920s. He described to me how, as a child, he was taught to ride by a Russian horse boy, and how his parents spoke Lithuanian to their tenants. This was a colony in which a German ruling caste ruled over the locals. These Germans have been afraid of them for generations, whether openly or repressed. A typical feeling in colonized areas worldwide.
ZEIT: Rulers who are afraid of the ruled, where else does that exist?
Hawes: Among Protestants in Northern Ireland. In the south of the USA, in the former slaveholding states. Among white South Africans. Elon Musk supports the AfD. He spent his childhood in apartheid South Africa. The white South African, the white Southern American and the German colonist in East Prussia always knew that he was in danger of being attacked. This gave rise to great fear that an entire culture could be destroyed. You can also see this with Björn Höcke.
ZEIT: Björn Höcke, who grew up in West Germany?
Hawes: Höcke's grandparents fled Königsberg during the Second World War. In a podcast he talked about how his family lost their home in East Prussia. And how this experience of “pain of extinction” was discussed again and again in the parental home. And how he is now afraid of losing his homeland again because the Germans are becoming a minority. He is afraid of “them.” Except that “they” are now Muslims and not Poles or Russians.
ZEIT: You go very far back to explain the present.
Hawes: I am firmly of the opinion that cultural views are passed down from generation to generation, like language or dialect, unconsciously. The experiences that shaped Björn Höcke's thinking came from his grandparents. I suspect he will pass it on to his son. And in 50 years, Höcke's son will pass this on to his grandchildren. Views that date back to 1945 end up in 2080. That's almost 150 years. History is passed down from family to family.
ZEIT: In your book you described Prussia as the “evil of Germany.” Why was Prussia so bad?
Hawes: Because Prussia conquered Germany! I'm amazed that you have to explain this to the Germans! As an Englishman, I understand how one can completely misinterpret one's own history. Many of my compatriots believe the crazy idea that the British colonial empire was something good for the world. But in Germany... I once asked a student from Frankfurt at a lecture in Berlin: "Do you really not know that your city was surrounded by Prussian artillery in 1866 and was threatened with complete destruction if it did not bring in 25 million gold thalers within 24 hours?" Few Germans know that.
ZEIT: You are talking about the Prussian-Austrian War of 1866, which Prussia won. One of the wars of unification that led to the founding of the Empire.
Hawes: It was a German war. Prussia against the German Confederation under Austrian leadership. Saxony, Baden, Hanover – all German states were on the Austrian side. Bayern and Frankfurt continued to fight against Prussia three weeks after the decisive defeat in Königgrätz. All of this was erased by Prussian historiography, which was drummed into Germans for generations. That the “natural” unification of Germany would have taken place through Prussia. That Prussia was even the cradle of Germany. Which is completely crazy! Germany as a nation state was only forced together by Prussia in 1871. It is not an organic structure.
ZEIT: Where do you think the cradle of Germany is?
